Contradiction?

simplyorthodox
Administrators

Church of Greece

Posts: 93

Contradiction? Jan 10, 2013 20:24:15 GMT 2

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Post by simplyorthodox on Jan 10, 2013 20:24:15 GMT 2

Hello guys!

I have received another question that I find it diffiult to answer. This time I have no problem with the english vocabulary, but with the theological knowledge.

"If a man sins and denies it, saying, ¡I have not sinned,¢ do not correct him, or you will destroy any intention he might have of changing. If you say, ¡Do not be cast down, my brother, but be careful about that in the future,¢ you will move his heart to repent.- Abba Poemen, sayings of the Desert Fathers</r> I've seen this quote a couple of times, and it seems to contradicting the teach of Christ in Matthew 18:15-17? ? Please explain to me how the Ordthordox faith handles apparent conflicts"

Any help?

Vlad
Administrators

Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Posts: 89

Contradiction? Jan 11, 2013 1:07:45 GMT 2

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Post by Vlad on Jan 11, 2013 1:07:45 GMT 2

Well, I think the implications of the two sayings are different. Abba Poemen seems to be talking about judgement, and I agree that generally, when you hassle someone about sinning, they'll be less likely to stop.

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

Jesus seems to be talking about actual personal problems between you and another person. If someone has sinned against you, you inform him and talk it over with him, and get people to confirm your claim if you have to.

So it's not really a contradiction since the two statements aren't talking about the same issue.

OrthodoxBrit
Administrators

Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria

Kyrie Eleison, Lord Bless Us, Amen.

Posts: 234

Contradiction? Jan 11, 2013 1:56:11 GMT 2

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Post by OrthodoxBrit on Jan 11, 2013 1:56:11 GMT 2

I think the issue is with how you see the "tell him his fault" line.

I do not think that Christ saying us that we should tell someone their fault is correction is a contradiction. He is not saying to punish or chastse them, if anything he is supporting Abba poemen's advice on saying "be careful about that in the future." If someone is learning something and makes a mistake isn't telling them the fault the same as saying to be careful?

Christ also said ""Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" (Matt 7:3) and "When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:7) so we see Christ teaching non-judgement here, so this is more common than any judgement.

simplyorthodox Administrators Church of Greece Posts: 93	Contradiction? Jan 12, 2013 20:21:49 GMT 2 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by simplyorthodox on Jan 12, 2013 20:21:49 GMT 2 I see, it was really helpful

Post by simplyorthodox on Jan 10, 2013 20:24:15 GMT 2

Post by Vlad on Jan 11, 2013 1:07:45 GMT 2

Post by OrthodoxBrit on Jan 11, 2013 1:56:11 GMT 2

Post by simplyorthodox on Jan 12, 2013 20:21:49 GMT 2