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Post by OrthodoxBrit on Feb 2, 2013 16:39:06 GMT 2
Hi all,
I was just wondering what your views were on attending the services of Orthodox Christian communities, as I have heard Orthodox arguing for both sides of this.
As someone who works in a Roman Catholic school I attending the Franj mass 3 days a week and some times attend the Solemn Latin Vespers (For the sure acoustics of it) at Westminster Cathedral with some Indian catholic friends when they visit. Apart from that, I tend to avoid visiting other communities apart from when attending as a Subdeacon to the Metropolitan on special events.
At the Council of Laodicea lays out some Canons which make attending any services quote dubious, such as Canon 6 "It is not permitted to heretics to enter the house of God while they continue in heresy" which we see raised as part of the duty of the Diaconate not to allow "Dogs, Cattle or heretics" to enter the Church.
Canon 33 also says "No one shall join in prayers with heretics or schismatics" which is the most interesting as, if taken from the Juridicial-Scientific approach to the Canons it means EO and OO cannot attend eachother's services and neither can attend a service by any other group. Though if we take the approach of seeing them from the Theological-Ecclesiological approach, more dependent but just as common as the J-S Approach amongst modern theologians, it is a matter of these groups at the time being the Arians, Novatians and other 4th Century heretical communities rather than simply separate Churches coming from an Apostolic line (it is important to remember that Rome is still apostolic even though it is not Orthodox.)
What do others think? I have been advised from both views before so wanted to see what you guys think.
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Post by admin on Feb 2, 2013 22:15:53 GMT 2
Never happened to me.
The only thing I can say is: if you go, be respectful. If you feel God, you can cross yourself and pray in your religion's manner. If not, just wait for the whole thing to finish, observing the culture and customs and traditions.
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Post by immerlein on Feb 3, 2013 2:53:37 GMT 2
I don't really have a problem with it... Then again, if you do, I would say you'd have to be careful (especially if you went to a Protestant service). It's important to not be influenced or confused by their theology (not that I'm saying this is an issue for everyone, but yeah).
There are some people at my church who attend every week despite not being Orthodox and not really wishing (at this stage at least) to become Orthodox themselves. The priest doesn't have a problem with it, though he does gently encourage them to become Orthodox.
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Post by Vlad on Feb 3, 2013 22:02:11 GMT 2
Well, look at the context that these canons were written in. Back then, if you were a heretic, you were a serious heretic (Gnostic, Arian, etc.) Now, there isn't a huge amount of differentiation between groups that claim to follow Christ. If a group prays to the exact same God, with very similar prayers that contain no heresy, what problem is there in praying with them even if they aren't exactly in communion with us?
But like I always say, one should always practice caution. Do not conform to any non-Orthodox practice, and generally look at the Church. I'd be fine with praying with Catholics, but not so much with say, Pentecostals (or even worse, Charismatics).
And sometimes, attending the services of other groups is the only thing one can do. In the West, there aren't that many Orthodox Churches, and some people wishing to become Orthodox attend Roman Catholic services, and I see nothing wrong in that.
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Post by JamesfromTA on Feb 4, 2013 4:37:37 GMT 2
Personally speaking, I don't attend unless I have to (say for a family or friend thing; I'm the only Orthodox Christian in my family so whenever there is anything like a wedding/funeral/baptism/confirmation I go to a Frank-Latin church or an Anglican one) and then I just act as an observer (though a respectful one).
The canons are one reason for why I don't but there are others as well; another reason is that I will not get the same from a heterodox service than I will an Orthodox one. I won't get the same spiritual nourishment as it were. Back when I was deciding whether to convert and then after my decision but having to keep it on the lowdown I faced what I am trying to get at. Going to the Orthodox Church was like after wandering in a desert for so long then coming across a lush oasis. For me, it's a bit like after finding that oasis deciding to stick myself back out in that desert again; sure I may find some water here and there but it isn't going to be the same. At the times I could attend the Orthodox Church it was great, when I would go to my old church it was still nice but it wasn't the same at all.
Other reasons for why are due to people trying to convert me and if I were to go to their services (even to act as a tourist) I would just get bombarded so it's not worth the effort really.
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Post by immerlein on Feb 5, 2013 12:16:43 GMT 2
I totally agree with James. After attending the Orthodox church, I never want to go back.
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Post by simplyorthodox on Feb 5, 2013 20:24:36 GMT 2
It hasn't happened to meas I live in an Orthodox country. There are here some Catholic and Protestant parishes, but why to attend the services there? Orthodoxy is so perfect, I feel so complete that I don't feel the need to visit them.
To me, visiting a heterodox church is betrayal of Orthodoxy. I mean, not to visit a Catholic or Anglican Cathedral/monastery as a tourist if you visit another country to see the monuments, but to attend services and worship.
However, if I lived in a country like Spain or Italy that is totally Catholic, with a small amount of Orthodox parishes, maybe I would go the Sunday and light a candle, and cross myself the Orthodox way. But I can't say it for sure, I would have to talk to my spiritual father at first.
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Post by reachingfortheheavens on Feb 9, 2013 1:04:49 GMT 2
I have wondered this too. I am not a convert, still an inquirer. Because I cannot yet regularly attend an Orthodox Church, I occasionally attend mass at the Roman Catholic church on campus. I do so fully knowing that I definitely don't intend to become Catholic, and the priest there knows that as well. I enjoy the community, but I do sometimes wonder if it's a bad idea.
As for other churches- I wouldn't visit a protestant church on my own. Occasionally a good friend will ask me to go to their church, in which case I'm usually willing to go once and observe (if I don't have Liturgy to go to at the same time). The only ones, with all due respect to those communities, that I really hate going to and will make excuses to decline invitations are the ones that make an attempt to have a liturgical service that is just completely not on. At least with those who have completely removed the liturgical aspects, I can think of it as more of a Christian lecture and worst case scenario I disagree with the message.
Anyway, given the option of any church to attend I wouldn't want to attend one other than Orthodox. I suppose I should ask someone for guidance as to whether or not I should really be attending mass. I'm not really sure why I do to be honest, although I think maybe it's just comforting to me to be in a room of people who are respectfully worshiping God even if it is not ideal in my mind.
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Post by timotheos on Feb 11, 2013 2:33:45 GMT 2
I'm actually in the position where I'm working for the next few months in a remote North American area where the population is mostly Roman Catholic, with the nearest Orthodox Church (all of which are Greek) being over 4 hours away in any direction.
I attend services at a mixed Anglican/United church, if for no other reason than to keep up the habit of going to church on Sunday. I still maintain my firm convictions in the Orthodoxy, and to help nourish my spiritual needs until I can return to an Orthodox parish, I have been listening daily to Ancient Faith Radio and am reading a plethora of Orthodox literature (Sayings of the Desert Fathers, Life of Saint Silouan, Bishop Kallistos Ware, etc.)
So, my thoughts on attending the services of other Christian communities: I think it is fine in the event that you have no Orthodox parishes near you. It is good to build friendship with other Christians, provided that you don't let your own faith in the ancient church be watered down by heterodox ideals... and probably that you refrain from taking communion with them. At the United church I'm at, I tried to politely decline taking communion, but they insisted (someone passes out a cube of bread and little plastic shot glasses of wine.... of course, it's purely symbolic, so I figure there's no harm).
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Post by OrthodoxBrit on Feb 11, 2013 2:35:44 GMT 2
Just out of curiosity, when people on here are so Critical of Protestant services an more receptive of Catholic ones, is that because they are non-liturgical?
And with hat being the case, what about Anglican Services?
Interestingly, the Scottish Presbyterian Church uses the Orthodox Liturgy of St James.
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Post by Vlad on Feb 11, 2013 3:17:41 GMT 2
>___________> Hello Daniel.
I prefer traditional services simply because they are more in line with the Liturgy. I think that Traditional Liturgical practices, both in their organization and aesthetic beauty are part of the soul of the Liturgy.
When I was a Protestant, I noticed a severe lacking in the spiritual depth of the services. I've been to a Pentecostal service, and a Baptist service.
I'm ignorant on Anglican services. I know that the Anglican Church has mixes of traditional, liturgical practices, and also has churches that are much less liturgical. Either way, I'd highly prefer the historic practices surrounding services.
And the Scottish Presbyterian Church, and many other Presbyterian Churches are "High Church" Protestants. I'm not too surprised by that.
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Post by JamesfromTA on Feb 11, 2013 22:54:35 GMT 2
I'm critical of all of them to be fair, whether they are Frankish or Protestant =P
I think it's harder for people to pin down an Anglican thing unless you come from an Anglican background (and even still it's difficult to pin down!!) just because of the breadth of worship style. It's not as clear cut as low/broad/high from personal experience.
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