Ecumenism

My main issue with the ecumenical movement is the fear of compromising the faith, under whatever circumstances we cannot compromise on that and we should look to the Saints (such as St. Mark of Ephesus) for an example. Personally, I think to be united with other Christians back in the one faith would be epic but at the end of the day it is them who are in error and need to come back.

I can't even venture into the world of ecumenism on a big scale right now. Being catechumen I am interested to know how to relate to my protestant friends . . on a personal level.

My girlfriend belongs to a Presbyterian church but she didn't really know what that meant until I told her about "pre-destination" and the whole bit.

Nowadays, her friends feel like I am "changing" her and maybe "obstructing" her faith. She feels guilty when she comes to my church . . .

So there is that.. I would like to know people's thoughts on ecumenism on a personal, relational level . . .

-e.

Thanks, Orthodoxbrit . .

My girlfriend and I have been dating now for over a year and a half. We both came together over our affection for C.S. Lewis and our love for Jesus. She introduced me to her church here in Korea and they have been such a strong community for me as I began to settle in a new country. And an important note, her church community is only about 15 people!! We would meet every Sunday from 9am - 3pm for service, lunch, and bible study. I did this for one year and three months before I discovered Orthodoxy and became catechumen. So, now, we are a crossroads. She is very interested in Orthodoxy. Can't wrap her head around the Theotokos or veneration of icons, etc . . but she attends Saturday evening services with me, loves talking with Father Daniel, and agrees with just about everything Orthodoxy has to offer.

So, there's that. We are having a difficult time with her community not understanding everything about Orthodoxy, feeling like I'm "changing" her, etc. Remember, this community is her foundation here. They have been around a long time before I ever showed up . . I am still just a foreigner . . and Orthodoxy in Korea is a very foreign thing to most Protestant Koreans.

I'm not too big on Ecumenicism as a whole. As Orthodoxbrit said, it's a great thing if you're dealing with Oriental Orthodox groups, since, again, we are practically identical in our theology. In this case, Ecumenicism would be a very good thing.

As for the Roman Catholic Church, I do not see why we should pursue Ecumenicism unless it is on solid ground. The Orthodox Church must, under no circumstances, change itself. If we are going to reach a conclusion, it must be an Orthodox one. The Roman Catholic Church must recognize the error in its changing of the Nicene Creed, of their changed Liturgy, etc.

Protestant groups such as Anglicans and Lutherans, I believe should do the same, though they have a longer way to go than Roman Catholicism.

As for Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, etc.. No.

And, Elionberger, it is quite a struggle, one that I understand since I myself was a Protestant, and wasn't too happy when learning about Protestants converting to Orthodoxy. However, we must always be faithful to God above all. It was difficult for my parents to accept my sudden religiosity, but it does get better, and they do learn to understand eventually. Hopefully it will be the same for your girlfriend. Our prayers are with you, and with her. God bless!

I'm just curious as to any EO views in what Theophilus has said here. All EO accept the Christological formula of St. Cyril as Orthodox, yet many condemn the phrase "one nature" or Mia-physis as Monophysite heresy. Since we cannot discern where this difference appears in the mindset of those that claim it is there, and cannot discern any difference in theological views, should we just accept that we fundamentally believe the same?

Also how would you approach the topic of the Anathemas on likes of on Dioscorus and Severus, who were anathematised for preaching the miaphysis formula. Since the formula is accepted as Orthodox, should these be dropped?

James, which part of the Ecumenical movement are you talking about, the Pastoral one between all Christian communities, the one with Rome or the one between Orthodox families? Or were these speaking about it as a singular entity.

I find that to discuss Ecumenism or 'The Ecumenical movement' as a single entity will always breed hostility but feel that it is far more complex than something which you can simply label yourself 'pro-ecumenism' or 'anti-ecumenism' on the spot.

The Orthodox Ecumenical movement is an example of this, whilst the majority of Orthodox Heirarchs have agreed Synodically that the faiths of both families are orthodox and that the Coptic patriarchs have never embraced Monophysitism, Many Monks on Athos and Elders of the Mountain will still refer to the Copts as 'monophysite heretics.' Though their faith and role in the Church is vital I would not see them as an indicator of the Orthodox position on this part of the movement, though would agree with them on other aspects.

As for other parts of it, we need to remember that many complained when HAH Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras I of Constantinople lifted the Anathemas against Rome in the 1960's and many called him a heretic and a freemason when he did this, claiming that he would cause the downfall of the Orthodox Church, though close to 50 years on these people are called fringe groups and ignored. Now we see HAH Patriarch Bartholomew and this week HH Ignatius of the Greek Antiochian Church with the Bishop of Rome on many occasions, though keeping the acceptable behaviour for two groups in Schism.

So, whilst people rant about Ecumenism we have Copts communing Greeks in Alexandria and Antiochians communing Syriacs in Damascus due to their Synods agreeing that Pastoral needs of two equally Orthodox communities who have been out of communion for 1500 years requires this and allowing for Orthodox Ecumenism to meet the needs of the faithful. Many Orthodox Saints were in and out of Communion and even heresy in their lifetimes (Maximos, Isaac the Syrian, Augustine...) but stayed in contact with the Church and were eventually rectified, others who did not were not cast out but sent to Monasteries to learn the faith and repent. This tradition of completely cutting them off and the modern invention of internet polemics did not happen and I would imagine that those Saints who wrote on the canons for bringing Heretics back into the Church would be appauled by the actions of many 'True Orthodox' groups and their hateful language.

In the meantime we have American 'True Orthodox' and websites such as OrthodoxInfo telling people online that Syriacs and Copts are monophysite heretics who lie about their beliefs and will face some kind of Divine smiteing if they do not accept Chalcedon regardless of Bishops across the world accepting their Orthodoxy in faith and claiming communing them is 'Heretical Ecumenism'.

The label of Ecumenism is so broad that it can encompass and justify both of these opposite views with one term so altogether, I have started to think that people cry "Ecumenism! Heresy!" far too often and without understanding the complexities of the term. I say this as an OO who has been labelled a Monophysite by many EO but at the same time been offered the chance to recieve communion by EO Bishops at events. To completely deny Ecumenism and label it heresy is to deny reconciliation or progression of the Church and make it a static and lifeless entity.

I agree with both you and his Grace on this. the term itself is far too unclear and some troubling things can appear under it.
one example being the Orthodox Bishop recieving a Sacramental blessing from the Catholic Bishop in Germany last year, he claimed it was Pastoral Ecumenism whilst it was clearly Sacramental. At the same time some clearly unchristian acts are committed to prevent what they argue to be Ecumenism, when it is simple Christian cooperation.

The whole thing is a hot potato which is thrown between far too many people these days. haha.

What an awesome picture. God bless.