Byzantium: The Great Schism | Online Orthodox Christian Assembly

elionberger
Hermit

Orthodox Church of Korea

Catechumen

Posts: 65

Byzantium: The Great Schism Aug 14, 2012 6:37:36 GMT 2

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Post by elionberger on Aug 14, 2012 6:37:36 GMT 2

Hello everybody . . I've had an extremely busy week so I haven't been able to get through this section yet. Also, my computer just decided to die on me last night . .

. . can't really believe it.

Anyway, I can still check and post with my phone.

At this point, I don't have any questions of substance regarding the Byzantium: The Great Schism section.

But, I do have a couple of questions regarding hierarchy in the church:

1. I don't deal well with authority at times. I actually have a real problem with it . . but I understand that is my own cross to bear. I just don't understand all the crazy vestments, the hats, the canes, all the pomp and circumstance that surrounds bishops and the like . . . to be perfectly honest, I kind of giggle to myself when I see some of the costumes people ar wearing. What is the history behind this?

Sometimes I get so appalled at the behavior of the clergy from various churches, i.e. the 2008 brawl that broke out at the holy sepulcher (wtf??)

I always think of Matthew 18.

All these people in the clergy are just trying to be the best. When the disciples asked Jesus, "Who is the best?" Jesus called a little child over to him. Simple, innocent, not dressed to the gills in vestments, etc . .

except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kindgome of heaven

When I see grown adults fighting over the Sepulcher, fighting over rank, wearing fancy vestments, etc to display rank . . . all I see is childish behviour . . .

These are just rambling thoughts I've been having . . . These are some of the thoughts I have troubles with . . .

simplyorthodox
Administrators

Church of Greece

Posts: 93

Byzantium: The Great Schism Aug 15, 2012 12:22:10 GMT 2

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Post by simplyorthodox on Aug 15, 2012 12:22:10 GMT 2

Hello Erik, have a blessed Dormition of Theotokos day!

Here is a link that explains the meaning of the vestments: www.roca.org/OA/32/32f.htm As you know, in Orthodoxy everything has a special symbolic meaning: iconography, architecture, hymns, vestments etc!

Now about the behaviour of some specific clergy, all I have to say it this: I am not the one that will judge the behaviour of the priesthood. Even if they do bad things or wrongs, I respect them, because they are priests. Once my priest in his sermon had said that priests in Last Judgement will be judged twice: as men and as priests. So their responsibility is very important. Also, the grace of God comes to us even via unworthy priests. So, as soon as someone is a priest, he can confess us and give us Communion, so look how important he is! That's why I respect them all.

Also, they are week human beings, just like us: they have passions, just like the laity. They may have the passions of anger, of egotism etc. They are sinners as we are. But there is a difference: via all of these that they offer to us (confession, communion) we can be saved.

Finally, let us try not to focus only at the actions of specific priests (scandals etc) but let's focus at the impotance of the priesthood in general and the fact that are millions of worthy clergy and only a small amount of unworthy. Look how many Saints were priests or Bishops or Archbishops!

I know that my words may not make sence, but I tried to!

elionberger
Hermit

Orthodox Church of Korea

Catechumen

Posts: 65

Byzantium: The Great Schism Aug 16, 2012 5:17:08 GMT 2

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Post by elionberger on Aug 16, 2012 5:17:08 GMT 2

Thank You Simply Orthodox . . .

I was in an especially bitter mood when I wrote that last post. I'm not sure why . . but, I have been humbled.

Yesterday, during the Dormition of Theotokos, I went to Liturgy and watched Father Daniel perform his duties, and I made confession to him . . . . I was very humbled and I am very greatful to him.

Also, I remember seeing on Tumblr, maybe you posted this picture, I can't remember . . but, I saw a picture of a newborn baby being tonsured and the priest's robes were draped over the baby and I thought, "what a wonderful thing for the baby to see, such beautiful colors." I got to thinking, as well, "what else would they wear? Jeans and a T-shirt, a suit and tie??"

All I can say is that I appreciate the clergy. I was very judgemental and bitter in my last post. You are completely right when you wrote:

let's focus at the impotance of the priesthood in general and the fact that are millions of worthy clergy and only a small amount of unworthy. Look how many Saints were priests or Bishops or Archbishops!

Again, thank you for your response. I'm working my way through all of this . . . I do feel God bringing me closer to him.

+In Christ,
Erik

Last Edit: Aug 16, 2012 5:17:40 GMT 2 by elionberger

simplyorthodox
Administrators

Church of Greece

Posts: 93

Byzantium: The Great Schism Aug 17, 2012 14:35:51 GMT 2

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Post by simplyorthodox on Aug 17, 2012 14:35:51 GMT 2

It's okay dear Erik! You know, I was always Orthodox, so I take many things for granted (eg the vestments) so all these stuff aren't weard for me. I understand how difficult must be for you, that's why I admire so much all the Orthodox converts.

May God strengthen you and guide you!

OrthodoxBrit
Administrators

Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria

Kyrie Eleison, Lord Bless Us, Amen.

Posts: 234

Byzantium: The Great Schism Aug 21, 2012 23:53:01 GMT 2

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Post by OrthodoxBrit on Aug 21, 2012 23:53:01 GMT 2

There is a great example from the desert fathers which a local priest once told me.

A Monk was once about to recieve communion but discovered the sins committed by the priest and refused to ever recieve communion from him again, seeing the priest as unworthy. That night he had a dream:

In the dream he was in the desert parched and close to death. He suddenly saw a river of water and found the water in it to be the sweetest he had tasted. He decided to follow the river to its spring and discovered it had sprung from the mouth of a dog's carass which was rotting in the desert sun.

When he woke up the next day he went and recieved communion from that priest knowing that if God can will the purest of springs to come from a rotting carcass, he can will the Holy Communion to come from this man.